“Israel reacts to Arab violence; she doesn’t instigate it.”

Funnily enough, Arabs have exactly the opposite perception. They see themselves as merely reacting to Israeli violence, and the Israelis as instigating it. Both sides are largely right about their own motives, both sides are entirely wrong about the other side’s motives. You might do well to read Gershom’s post about “The First Law of Political Thermodynamics”, including the psychological research he references there – and learn the lessons that it teaches.

“A normal country would not build a wall – she’d take out 200 Arabs at random and shoot them for every act of terror.”

This is – bluntly – nonsense, and self-serving nonsense at that. Spain does not respond that way to Basque terrorism; Britain did not respond that way to Irish terrorism; neither country has responded that way to Islamic terrorism, even though more people died in a single attack in Madrid in 2004 than have died through terrorist attacks in Israel in the last 5 years put together. You have invented a fantasy “normal country” that doesn’t exist (certainly not among modern democracies), merely in order to convince yourself that Israel is unusually restrained by comparison.

“Gee, the wall “inconveniences” the Arab, it makes him mad. That’s too bad.”

If it encourages violence, if it perpetuates endless war – and it may well do both – then it is indeed too bad. But it is too bad for Israel as well as for the Arabs, since Israel herself suffers horrendously as a result of violence and endless war.

“Is there anyhting that will mollify the a Arab except your suicide?”

Quite a lot; but as a small first move, abandoning the sort of unpleasant racism that characterizes “the Arab” in these silly terms would be a good start.

Sirs,

The primary concern of any nation and head of State is to protect the people.

You betray your fellows, David, by worrying about the Arab when he is only worrying about cutting your throat. You can live your principles by moving to Ramallah or Gaza and see how long you live. Yet, you try to be tender hearted when you have the Israeli army continually guarding you.

You and Chris argue like women who are worried that the rapist is uncomfortable and might get mad if they don’t cooperate in their own rape.

Israel reacts to Arab violence; she doesn’t instigate it.
A normal country would not build a wall – she’d take out 200 Arabs at random and shoot them for every act of terror.

Gee, the wall “inconveniences” the Arab, it makes him mad. That’s too bad.

Is there anyhting that will mollify the a
Arab except your suicide?

I mean I can understand anger at Palestinian actions and so forth but are any of you aware of what the ratio of civilian kill-rates are from Israeli to Palestinians throughout the hostilities, never mind all the other Palestinian grievances that have come with the occupation. Does none of this exist, or does it simply not bother you.

For sure there is the ‘they started it’ we are only responding but aren’t both sides playing this number. How can it break the deadlock? How can you expect the other side to forgo violence as a tool and yet embrace it so enthusiastically to resolve the conflict.

I have heard this promise of the overwhelming use of force since for as long as I can remember but I am just wondering what you have in mind this time if the current policy is restrained.

The “100 per year” deaths from terrorism is not mine: it came from Haim’s post, quoting the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs. If you have a problem with that figure, your argument is with them, not with me. In the absence of reliable evidence to the contrary, I shall assume that the Israeli Foreign Ministry’s numbers are correct.

As to the psychological impact of terrorism as against traffic accidents, you are absolutely right, Emanuel, that it is far greater, and that this a factor that needs to be taken into account. That was a major consideration in Haim’s original argument for the necessity of the barrier, and I was not intending to treat it lightly – the reason I didn’t mention it explicitly is because I was taking it for granted, not because I didn’t think it mattered. My point about traffic accidents was merely to demonstrate that – contrary to what you state – Israel does not treat every Israeli life as precious. In the case of traffic Israel is (rightly, in my view) prepared to weigh up all pros and cons, and decide that 400+ people a year can indeed be sacrificed for the comfort of their fellows. I was suggesting that a similar calculus should be applied to the security barrier, and was asking – not stating, because I don’t have an answer – what the result of that calculus might be.

But that calculus needs to take into account _all_ considerations, including the long-term effect on prospects for peace. And here my concern is that you are both ignoring the psychological impact on the Palestinians – or rather, you are imagining a psychological impact which is utterly unlike any psychological impact that real-world actions have on real-world people. If your concern is that people perceive Jewish life as cheap, then you do not make them perceive Jewish life as more worthwhile by violently oppressing them – you simply encourage them to think of you as inhuman and to see violent responses against you as justified. In exactly the same way, Palestinian violence against Israelis does not make Israelis more conciliatory (as Haim rightly observed) – it makes Israelis more prone to violent responses themselves, to hit back against those hitting them. Why do you imagine that Palestinians’ psychological response to violence against them is different from your response to violence against you?

I see a basic problem with the argument that, numerically, traffic accidents are more deadly. You miss the psychological effect of terror on the living. Also I see a breezy willingness to sacrifice a few of your fellow citizens so that you’re comfortable. That is the way of death for all of you. Each Israeli is as precious as any other.

You cannot ransom military prisoners but you can avenge them.

Get it through your heads – the Arab will not be compromised with. You think that the method of the “shook” will work – if only we could work out a deal, a formula! There is no formula but overwhelming force and violence. Then he’ll leave you alone.