Comments on: Divine Press Office: Defense Team Fired

By: Diane Vera

Diane Vera — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 03:48:40 +0000

I agree that it would be unfair to accuse Hagee of antisemitism based just on his statements about the Holocaust. However, Hagee has other beliefs that are (in my opinion) more troubling, such as his belief in various grand-conspiracy theories reminiscent of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. For details, see Hagee's Antisemitic Conspiracy Theories by Chip Berlet.

By: Stephen Frug

Stephen Frug — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 22:03:15 +0000

If you’re unwilling to see a divine hand in the Holocaust, are you equally unwilling to see it in the destruction of Jerusalem chronicled in lamentations? Or is a divine hand behind human suffering ok as long as it was sufficiently long ago?

…That may be snarkier than I mean it to be. But the notion of God causing calamities that are overtly done through human free will seems to me deeper in Jewish belief than you’re acknowledging here.

(For the record: I don’t see a divine hand in any of this because I’m an atheist, and see no divine hands in anything.)

By: Richard Silverstein

Richard Silverstein — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 08:02:30 +0000

I’ve read a lot about Hagee’s theology and written some about it myself, but this piece is beautifully written and well-argued in theological terms. Thank you. I hope you’ll publish it somewhere where it will find an even larger audience.

By: george a. hilborn

george a. hilborn — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 13:49:40 +0000

So Y what’s your point ? Rebecca’s relatives suffering was pre-determined by scripture ? You would have made a good Calvinist

By: Y. Ben-David

Y. Ben-David — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 04:12:24 +0000

Rebecca,

I am not sure how believing that the suffering of all those caught in the Holocaust was meaningless is of comfort to you. While we can understand and not judge those who went through that hell and lost their faith, the fact is that many went through it and maintained theirs.
I recommend the book by Eliezer Berkovits “Faith After the Holocaust” for a hard-hitting Orthodox confrontation with all these questions we have about why there is suffering and how this could have happened.

By: george a. hilborn

george a. hilborn — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 15:58:09 +0000

There is no justification for the Holocaust but hatred starting with the Hellenistic Greeks who could’t stand that the Jewish culture was far advanced over theirs and they were still smarting over their defeat by the Hasmonean family;thus as the first group of gentiles to spread Chritianity they somewhat codified to wit: ” Jews were the killers of Christ” and it grew from there.We have always had these fundamentalist “sickos” with us especially here in the US because the country is so big where there was so much unpopulated frontier that they were not subject to big urban pressures or intellectual endeavors. Just take a look at where these people like Hagee come from;the South and medieval places like Kansas.

Y. G-d the loving G-d I believe in could not have been at the heart of the Holocaust.Men and their evil have to be at the heart and I believe evil exists and John Hagee is a evil man and the verdict is still out on Joe from Connecticutt

By: Rebecca

Rebecca — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 15:45:33 +0000

So there was a good purpose to the Holocaust? I’m sure my relatives who died at the hands of the Einsatzgruppen in Latvia would argue with that conclusion.

By: Y. Ben-David

Y. Ben-David — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 12:57:09 +0000

All you have done is push off the problem by saying abritrarily that it doesn’t exist because you don’t like the answer. What do you do with the “Brit Bein HaBetarim” where G-d tells Avraham Avinu that his children will be slaves in Egypt and they will suffer there? What do you do with the “tochachot” (rebukes) in parshat B’chukotai and in Sefer Devarim? Are you aware that Rashi, in Sefer Devarim talks about G-d pulling the Jewish people out of the Exile “by the fingernails”? (I don’t have the source with me but I will look for it). These things are in the Bible, open to everyone’s perusal. Rav Kook, and those who have a Kabbalistic background attempt to find meaning in history. History is not simply the record of “human follies” as some wit pointed out. Why is their human suffering at all?-it is not just “freedom of choice” of one person persecuting another. There are earthquakes, sicknesses, etc. The essense of “emuna” (faith) is to realize that G-d is behind everything and everything ULTIMATELY has a good purpose, even if we don’t understand it now. The scholar’s job is to try to find the meaning in this.

By: Chris Dornan

Chris Dornan — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 09:33:43 +0000

Excellent article Gershom: I think you have said this better that I have seen said anywhere else. It is interesting that I have been dealing with many of the same issues in a Christian/Buddhist/atheist context with the silly comments of Sharon Stone on the Chinese earthquake being caused by bad karma accumulated in the mistreatment of Tibetans. Some atheist philosophers have jumped on this as evidence that Buddhism is just as bad as Christianity and so on. No attempts by me to try and explain why this is misconceived seems to be having much effect but here is the best part: the argument seems to boil down to the fact that I am an elitist trying to pull the wool over the eyes of these philosophers with my sophistry! More of this, including the links can be found in Atheist Fundamentalism.

By: Peace & Wisdom

Peace & Wisdom — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 09:14:09 +0000

[...] 2, 2008 · No Comments Over at South Jerusalem Gershom Gorenberg has a fascinating article about a literalist tendency seen in all religions to try and map scripture onto the external world [...]