Comments on: Israel in the First World, U.S. in the Third http://southjerusalem.com/2008/07/israel-in-the-first-world-us-in-the-third/ A Progressive, Skeptical Blog on Israel, Judaism, Culture, Politics, and Literature Sun, 05 Feb 2012 12:35:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Gary Ginsberg http://southjerusalem.com/2008/07/israel-in-the-first-world-us-in-the-third/comment-page-1/#comment-1221 Gary Ginsberg Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:10:45 +0000 http://southjerusalem.com/?p=249#comment-1221 The free-market might work for ipods, fruit or vegetables but does not work for health. This is because unlike for fruit and vegetables (where the consumer has knowledge -- ie; I can guess how much I can appreciate apple pie and balance taht with how much I am prepared to spend on apples) consumers lack knowledge (ie: they have not studied medicine for 6-10 years) when it comes to buying health services and so rely on Doctors to be their agents. MD's have the ability to both demand AND supply services to teh prospective patient. Guess what, they overprovide unessential services (eg: hysterectomies, caesarians etc..). The best of doctors merit Gehinnom says the Talmud, because doctors (for very good reasons) afflict pain on people..the Talmud is telling doctors to think twice before starting a proceedure..... so what do doctors who operate for unnecessary reasons merit??? The free-market might work for ipods, fruit or vegetables but does not work for health. This is because unlike for fruit and vegetables (where the consumer has knowledge — ie; I can guess how much I can appreciate apple pie and balance taht with how much I am prepared to spend on apples) consumers lack knowledge (ie: they have not studied medicine for 6-10 years) when it comes to buying health services and so rely on Doctors to be their agents. MD’s have the ability to both demand AND supply services to teh prospective patient. Guess what, they overprovide unessential services (eg: hysterectomies, caesarians etc..). The best of doctors merit Gehinnom says the Talmud, because doctors (for very good reasons) afflict pain on people..the Talmud is telling doctors to think twice before starting a proceedure….. so what do doctors who operate for unnecessary reasons merit???

]]> By: george a.hilborn http://southjerusalem.com/2008/07/israel-in-the-first-world-us-in-the-third/comment-page-1/#comment-1130 george a.hilborn Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:15:24 +0000 http://southjerusalem.com/?p=249#comment-1130 Boy did you hit it on the head .The trouble is most Americans won't believe the truth in regard to their healthcare because it's unpatriotic to believe that we aren't the best in the world not a slow-adapting also -ran. As a lawyer I have had several defective hip prosthesis cases where the prothesis has cracked and had to be removed and a new one put in; all the technology based on devices no longer used in Europe. The manufacturers usually blame the surgeons or the victim rather than accept my metallurgists testing, based on unassailable data. Of course the culprits always point to approval by the " holy of holies" the FDA. I have settled every one with a confedential order on disclosure of terms of settlement. Most of the enlightened healthcare systems in the world are based on service.The system in the US is based on profit. I look forward to "an awakening" but not in Anbar but in the US but Man it is sure slow in coming. Boy did you hit it on the head .The trouble is most Americans won’t believe the truth in regard to their healthcare because it’s unpatriotic to believe that we aren’t the best in the world not a slow-adapting also -ran. As a lawyer I have had several defective hip prosthesis cases where the prothesis has cracked and had to be removed and a new one put in; all the technology based on devices no longer used in Europe. The manufacturers usually blame the surgeons or the victim rather than accept my metallurgists testing, based on unassailable data. Of course the culprits always point to approval by the ” holy of holies” the FDA. I have settled every one with a confedential order on disclosure of terms of settlement.

Most of the enlightened healthcare systems in the world are based on service.The system in the US is based on profit. I look forward to “an awakening” but not in Anbar but in the US but Man it is sure slow in coming.

]]> By: David http://southjerusalem.com/2008/07/israel-in-the-first-world-us-in-the-third/comment-page-1/#comment-1126 David Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:21:43 +0000 http://southjerusalem.com/?p=249#comment-1126 Hi, I think you make a few mistakes, although I agree with your basic orientation: -You confuse socialized medicine (e.g. the V.A. system in America or the system in the U.K.), where the hospitals and clinics are government owned and run and the doctors are government employees, with socialized insurance (e.g. Medicare in the U.S. or the system in Canada), where hospitals and doctors are private but health insurance is provided by the government. -Israel actually has neither: If I understand it correctly, Israel has a system like Switzerland's with private insurance companies that are required by law to cover everyone who requests service and there is a national list of approved drugs and treatments. In Switzerland, the only profits the insurance companies are allowed to earn come from the sale of supplemental insurance for things not otherwise covered (private hospital rooms, alternative medicines etc.). In America, insurance companies earn profits by screening their customers and denying coverage for expensive procedures and treatments. Hi,
I think you make a few mistakes, although I agree with your basic orientation:

-You confuse socialized medicine (e.g. the V.A. system in America or the system in the U.K.), where the hospitals and clinics are government owned and run and the doctors are government employees, with socialized insurance (e.g. Medicare in the U.S. or the system in Canada), where hospitals and doctors are private but health insurance is provided by the government.

-Israel actually has neither: If I understand it correctly, Israel has a system like Switzerland’s with private insurance companies that are required by law to cover everyone who requests service and there is a national list of approved drugs and treatments. In Switzerland, the only profits the insurance companies are allowed to earn come from the sale of supplemental insurance for things not otherwise covered (private hospital rooms, alternative medicines etc.). In America, insurance companies earn profits by screening their customers and denying coverage for expensive procedures and treatments.

]]> By: Chris Dornan http://southjerusalem.com/2008/07/israel-in-the-first-world-us-in-the-third/comment-page-1/#comment-1109 Chris Dornan Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:30:32 +0000 http://southjerusalem.com/?p=249#comment-1109 A very interesting article, and well said.Everyone seems to be having problems with their health systems but the state of health-care in the US is truly astonishing. It is good to hear the case for social services made coherently. Its about time we rolled back the free-market dogma and found a more rational discourse. The right mix will be needed to avoid environmental meltdown. A very interesting article, and well said.Everyone seems to be having problems with their health systems but the state of health-care in the US is truly astonishing. It is good to hear the case for social services made coherently. Its about time we rolled back the free-market dogma and found a more rational discourse. The right mix will be needed to avoid environmental meltdown.

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