Comments on: Drawing the Line http://southjerusalem.com/2009/02/drawing-the-line/ A Progressive, Skeptical Blog on Israel, Judaism, Culture, Politics, and Literature Sun, 05 Feb 2012 12:35:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Herbert Kaine http://southjerusalem.com/2009/02/drawing-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-7062 Herbert Kaine Thu, 12 Feb 2009 22:19:06 +0000 http://southjerusalem.com/?p=899#comment-7062 I have nothing against a loyalty test for Israelis, including Arabs, but I would extend it to Tel Aviv as well I have nothing against a loyalty test for Israelis, including Arabs, but I would extend it to Tel Aviv as well

]]> By: Y. Ben-David http://southjerusalem.com/2009/02/drawing-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-7049 Y. Ben-David Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:40:35 +0000 http://southjerusalem.com/?p=899#comment-7049 Remember how Ben-Gurion kept the Israeli Arabs living under military government? It was Menachem Begin, Levi Eshkol and others who finally pushed for removing it. Remember how Ben-Gurion kept the Israeli Arabs living under military government? It was Menachem Begin, Levi Eshkol and others who finally pushed for removing it.

]]> By: Scott Benson http://southjerusalem.com/2009/02/drawing-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-6993 Scott Benson Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:12:45 +0000 http://southjerusalem.com/?p=899#comment-6993 Sorry Haim, people like you and Gershon bear some responsibility for the rise of Lieberman. Pushing failed policies for 15 years that have seriously weakened Israel would eventually inspire a reaction. Post zionism sounded good initially, but Israel eventually realized that Ismail Haniyeh is not Richard Simmons or Mister Rogers, and that the UN would not defend Israel. After 15 years of slumber, Israel is waking up like Rip van Winkel and it doesnt like what it sees. So, before castigating Israel for voting for Lieberman, take a good look in the mirror Sorry Haim, people like you and Gershon bear some responsibility for the rise of Lieberman. Pushing failed policies for 15 years that have seriously weakened Israel would eventually inspire a reaction. Post zionism sounded good initially, but Israel eventually realized that Ismail Haniyeh is not Richard Simmons or Mister Rogers, and that the UN would not defend Israel. After 15 years of slumber, Israel is waking up like Rip van Winkel and it doesnt like what it sees. So, before castigating Israel for voting for Lieberman, take a good look in the mirror

]]> By: JUMP http://southjerusalem.com/2009/02/drawing-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-6990 JUMP Tue, 10 Feb 2009 18:43:33 +0000 http://southjerusalem.com/?p=899#comment-6990 Did Y. Ben-David just refer to the first self-proclaimed post-Zionist in a positive light? Did Y. Ben-David just refer to the first self-proclaimed post-Zionist in a positive light?

]]> By: Y. Ben-David http://southjerusalem.com/2009/02/drawing-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-6965 Y. Ben-David Mon, 09 Feb 2009 22:49:35 +0000 http://southjerusalem.com/?p=899#comment-6965 Its funny how Ben-Gurion can be held up as a paragon of democracy. The elections held in 1949 for what is now called "The First Knesset" was actually at the time billed as elections for a body that would draw up a constitution. Since BG didn't want to be bound by a constitution, he unilaterally proclaimed the body to be a Parliament, i.e. the Knesset. Herut MK Hillel Kook (who had, as Peter Bergson, been actively involved in Holocaust rescue) said plainly that Ben-Gurion had simply carried out a coup d'etat. However, he received little support, even the head of his own party, Menachem Begin, refused to support him. He soon left politics for good. So we see the contempt for true democracy that we see in Israel today has its roots at the very beginning of Ben-Gurion's MAPAI rule. Its funny how Ben-Gurion can be held up as a paragon of democracy. The elections held in 1949 for what is now called “The First Knesset” was actually at the time billed as elections for a body that would draw up a constitution. Since BG didn’t want to be bound by a constitution, he unilaterally proclaimed the body to be a Parliament, i.e. the Knesset. Herut MK Hillel Kook (who had, as Peter Bergson, been actively involved in Holocaust rescue) said plainly that Ben-Gurion had simply carried out a coup d’etat. However, he received little support, even the head of his own party, Menachem Begin, refused to support him. He soon left politics for good. So we see the contempt for true democracy that we see in Israel today has its roots at the very beginning of Ben-Gurion’s MAPAI rule.

]]> By: David J. Balan http://southjerusalem.com/2009/02/drawing-the-line/comment-page-1/#comment-6959 David J. Balan Mon, 09 Feb 2009 21:48:55 +0000 http://southjerusalem.com/?p=899#comment-6959 I can't undertand why people are uniquely opposed to Lieberman. Sure he's a thug and a bully and probably a fascist (Rudy Guiliani on steroids) and we would be way better off without him. But as far as I can tell he's *much* less bad than the far-right religious parties, for whom eternal oppression of the Palestinians and contempt for secular humanistic values are fundanental religious obligations. He's also less bad than the hareidi parties, who also want to overturn the modern state and all modern values. In the long run, right-leaning Archie Bunker type nationalist Russians are much more likely to be a part of an Israel that a secular liberal (or a religious liberal for that matter) would want to live in. It seems to me that Tzipi Livni ought to offer him membership in an all-secular government that will give him everything else he wants (ministries, budgets, civil marriage, cuts to yeshiva budgets, etc.), in exchange for toning down the anti-Arab rhetoric. Would he take such an offer? I can’t undertand why people are uniquely opposed to Lieberman. Sure he’s a thug and a bully and probably a fascist (Rudy Guiliani on steroids) and we would be way better off without him. But as far as I can tell he’s *much* less bad than the far-right religious parties, for whom eternal oppression of the Palestinians and contempt for secular humanistic values are fundanental religious obligations. He’s also less bad than the hareidi parties, who also want to overturn the modern state and all modern values. In the long run, right-leaning Archie Bunker type nationalist Russians are much more likely to be a part of an Israel that a secular liberal (or a religious liberal for that matter) would want to live in.

It seems to me that Tzipi Livni ought to offer him membership in an all-secular government that will give him everything else he wants (ministries, budgets, civil marriage, cuts to yeshiva budgets, etc.), in exchange for toning down the anti-Arab rhetoric. Would he take such an offer?

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