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	<title>Comments on: Notes in the Margins of the Testimony</title>
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	<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/07/notes-in-the-margins-of-the-testimony/</link>
	<description>A Progressive, Skeptical Blog on Israel, Judaism, Culture, Politics, and Literature</description>
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		<title>By: Raghav</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/07/notes-in-the-margins-of-the-testimony/comment-page-1/#comment-13543</link>
		<dc:creator>Raghav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1423#comment-13543</guid>
		<description>aliyah06, you should know that Phillips Brooks doesn&#039;t think Israel even has a right to land within the 1949 borders. He also has some frankly disgusting views about Jews.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aliyah06, you should know that Phillips Brooks doesn&#8217;t think Israel even has a right to land within the 1949 borders. He also has some frankly disgusting views about Jews.</p>
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		<title>By: Raghav</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/07/notes-in-the-margins-of-the-testimony/comment-page-1/#comment-13541</link>
		<dc:creator>Raghav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1423#comment-13541</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;the Vietnam War was considered just(ified) until towards the end. &lt;/i&gt;

I don&#039;t think this is right. According to Gallup, the view that sending troops to Vietnam was a mistake commanded &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gallup.com/poll/18097/iraq-versus-vietnam-comparison-public-opinion.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a majority&lt;/a&gt; of Americans starting in Aug.-Sept. 1968, a bit more than two and a half years after large-scale military involvement. And from 1966 forward there were more Americans who disapproved of Johnson&#039;s handling of the war than those who approved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>the Vietnam War was considered just(ified) until towards the end. </i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think this is right. According to Gallup, the view that sending troops to Vietnam was a mistake commanded <a href="http://www.gallup.com/poll/18097/iraq-versus-vietnam-comparison-public-opinion.aspx" rel="nofollow">a majority</a> of Americans starting in Aug.-Sept. 1968, a bit more than two and a half years after large-scale military involvement. And from 1966 forward there were more Americans who disapproved of Johnson&#8217;s handling of the war than those who approved.</p>
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		<title>By: Raghav</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/07/notes-in-the-margins-of-the-testimony/comment-page-1/#comment-13540</link>
		<dc:creator>Raghav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1423#comment-13540</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;the Vietnam War was considered just(ified) until towards the end. &lt;/i&gt;

I don&#039;t think this is right. According to Gallup, the view that sending troops to Vietnam was a mistake commanded &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gallup.com/poll/18097/iraq-versus-vietnam-comparison-public-opinion.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a majority&lt;/a&gt; of Americans starting in Aug.-Sept. 1968, a bit more than two and a half years after large-scale military involvement. And from 1966 forward more Americans disapproved of Johnson&#039;s handling of the war than approved.

a majority of Americans  that sending troops to Vietnam &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gallup.com/poll/18097/iraq-versus-vietnam-comparison-public-opinion.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;was a mistake&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>the Vietnam War was considered just(ified) until towards the end. </i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think this is right. According to Gallup, the view that sending troops to Vietnam was a mistake commanded <a href="http://www.gallup.com/poll/18097/iraq-versus-vietnam-comparison-public-opinion.aspx" rel="nofollow">a majority</a> of Americans starting in Aug.-Sept. 1968, a bit more than two and a half years after large-scale military involvement. And from 1966 forward more Americans disapproved of Johnson&#8217;s handling of the war than approved.</p>
<p>a majority of Americans  that sending troops to Vietnam <a href="http://www.gallup.com/poll/18097/iraq-versus-vietnam-comparison-public-opinion.aspx" rel="nofollow">was a mistake</a></p>
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		<title>By: aliyah06</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/07/notes-in-the-margins-of-the-testimony/comment-page-1/#comment-13522</link>
		<dc:creator>aliyah06</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 08:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1423#comment-13522</guid>
		<description>&quot;If you dont want to be shelled in Sderot, give it back to its rightful owners, and stop whining about Gilad Shalit.&quot;

What an amazing revelation. Here&#039;s a comment from someone who thinks trying to recover a  son of ours who was the victim of a HAMAS invasion and attack is &quot;whining.&quot;  It is certainly one of the most sociopathic comments to appear here.

The other amazing thing is the writer&#039;s total ignorance: Sderot is not part of Gaza. Even Mohammed Dahlan and the PA agreed that Sderot is part of Israel proper.....so there is nothing to &quot;give back&quot; because it&#039;s not theirs.  Hamas is shelling Israeli towns because Hamas&#039; is engaged in an Islamic crusade to create a Caliphate on the ruins of Israel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If you dont want to be shelled in Sderot, give it back to its rightful owners, and stop whining about Gilad Shalit.&#8221;</p>
<p>What an amazing revelation. Here&#8217;s a comment from someone who thinks trying to recover a  son of ours who was the victim of a HAMAS invasion and attack is &#8220;whining.&#8221;  It is certainly one of the most sociopathic comments to appear here.</p>
<p>The other amazing thing is the writer&#8217;s total ignorance: Sderot is not part of Gaza. Even Mohammed Dahlan and the PA agreed that Sderot is part of Israel proper&#8230;..so there is nothing to &#8220;give back&#8221; because it&#8217;s not theirs.  Hamas is shelling Israeli towns because Hamas&#8217; is engaged in an Islamic crusade to create a Caliphate on the ruins of Israel.</p>
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		<title>By: Ploni Almoni</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/07/notes-in-the-margins-of-the-testimony/comment-page-1/#comment-13519</link>
		<dc:creator>Ploni Almoni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 07:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1423#comment-13519</guid>
		<description>Raghav, the Vietnam War was considered just(ified) until towards the end.  The question is whether public opinion turned against the methods by which the war was fought (e.g., napalm) at the same time it turned against the war itself.  I don&#039;t know the answer to that question.

I wasn&#039;t making an empirical claim here, only suggesting an intuitively plausible hypothesis.  I don&#039;t know if there&#039;s any evidence for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raghav, the Vietnam War was considered just(ified) until towards the end.  The question is whether public opinion turned against the methods by which the war was fought (e.g., napalm) at the same time it turned against the war itself.  I don&#8217;t know the answer to that question.</p>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t making an empirical claim here, only suggesting an intuitively plausible hypothesis.  I don&#8217;t know if there&#8217;s any evidence for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/07/notes-in-the-margins-of-the-testimony/comment-page-1/#comment-13505</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1423#comment-13505</guid>
		<description>The charges made by people in Gaza can not be investigated.  Hamas is in charge over there and the IDF can&#039;t talk to them.

B&#039;Tselem is being disingenuous here.  The stories about human shields are totally under Hamas administration.

In war, soldiers have to &quot;Shoot first&quot; or die.  I have to ask, though, whether the IDF in Gaza was acting as if it were facing Hezbollah, which fought differently.

Over the course of Cast Lead, about 2 or 3 people an hour died.  This is hardly the picture of an army gone mad.  One man with a rifle can kill that many people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The charges made by people in Gaza can not be investigated.  Hamas is in charge over there and the IDF can&#8217;t talk to them.</p>
<p>B&#8217;Tselem is being disingenuous here.  The stories about human shields are totally under Hamas administration.</p>
<p>In war, soldiers have to &#8220;Shoot first&#8221; or die.  I have to ask, though, whether the IDF in Gaza was acting as if it were facing Hezbollah, which fought differently.</p>
<p>Over the course of Cast Lead, about 2 or 3 people an hour died.  This is hardly the picture of an army gone mad.  One man with a rifle can kill that many people.</p>
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		<title>By: Phillips Brooks</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/07/notes-in-the-margins-of-the-testimony/comment-page-1/#comment-13496</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillips Brooks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 13:12:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1423#comment-13496</guid>
		<description>It is hard not to admire the ingenuity, integrity and resiliance of the Hamas freedom fighters using inferior weapons to reclaim their land, while the Goliath like IOF is unable to stope them. Now, the IOF soldiers are demonstrating graphically how they got whupped by the righteous freedom fighters. If you dont want to be shelled in Sderot, give it back to its rightful owners, and stop whining about Gilad Shalit</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is hard not to admire the ingenuity, integrity and resiliance of the Hamas freedom fighters using inferior weapons to reclaim their land, while the Goliath like IOF is unable to stope them. Now, the IOF soldiers are demonstrating graphically how they got whupped by the righteous freedom fighters. If you dont want to be shelled in Sderot, give it back to its rightful owners, and stop whining about Gilad Shalit</p>
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		<title>By: Raghav</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/07/notes-in-the-margins-of-the-testimony/comment-page-1/#comment-13484</link>
		<dc:creator>Raghav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 06:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1423#comment-13484</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; Some wars are considered less “just(ified)” than others by the public, for instance the Vietnam War by the Americans. It’s possible that in those cases the public might be a little stricter in the amount of tonnage it accepts in the bombs dropped on the enemy.&lt;/i&gt;

Unfortunate example, isn&#039;t it? The bomb tonnage dropped on Vietnam was about five times the amount dropped by Anglo-American forces during World War II.

Is there any actual evidence that countries were willing to countenance harsher tactics in wars they considered just? Were countries in the modern period really so unanimous in their assessments of whether particular wars were just? (For instance, did both sides agree about the Great French War?) Inquiring minds want to know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> Some wars are considered less “just(ified)” than others by the public, for instance the Vietnam War by the Americans. It’s possible that in those cases the public might be a little stricter in the amount of tonnage it accepts in the bombs dropped on the enemy.</i></p>
<p>Unfortunate example, isn&#8217;t it? The bomb tonnage dropped on Vietnam was about five times the amount dropped by Anglo-American forces during World War II.</p>
<p>Is there any actual evidence that countries were willing to countenance harsher tactics in wars they considered just? Were countries in the modern period really so unanimous in their assessments of whether particular wars were just? (For instance, did both sides agree about the Great French War?) Inquiring minds want to know.</p>
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		<title>By: aliyah06</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/07/notes-in-the-margins-of-the-testimony/comment-page-1/#comment-13466</link>
		<dc:creator>aliyah06</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1423#comment-13466</guid>
		<description>Naw, thousands of missile, mortar and rocket launches were just figments of our imagination rather than any real danger to the state (which is the people, not the government). Try to peddle that point of view in Sderot.

In the meantime, while you are chorusing your Greek chorus, what, if anything, are you doing to protest Gazan attacks ( which still continue albeit in greatly reduced numbers) on civilian towns in Israel? My bet is you&#039;re doing nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Naw, thousands of missile, mortar and rocket launches were just figments of our imagination rather than any real danger to the state (which is the people, not the government). Try to peddle that point of view in Sderot.</p>
<p>In the meantime, while you are chorusing your Greek chorus, what, if anything, are you doing to protest Gazan attacks ( which still continue albeit in greatly reduced numbers) on civilian towns in Israel? My bet is you&#8217;re doing nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: Ploni Almoni</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/07/notes-in-the-margins-of-the-testimony/comment-page-1/#comment-13447</link>
		<dc:creator>Ploni Almoni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 07:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1423#comment-13447</guid>
		<description>I think Dana is basically right.  Concentrating on Breaking the Silence is analogous to concentrating on illegal settlement outposts while ignoring the settlement project as a whole.  While Israel does generally try to avoid killing noncombatants, the effectiveness of the reprisals in Gaza (2008) and Lebanon (2006) &lt;i&gt;depends&lt;/i&gt; on the fact that there will be unintended but inevitable civilian suffering.  Israel tries to avoid harming noncombatants, but depends on the fact that it cannot be avoided.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Dana is basically right.  Concentrating on Breaking the Silence is analogous to concentrating on illegal settlement outposts while ignoring the settlement project as a whole.  While Israel does generally try to avoid killing noncombatants, the effectiveness of the reprisals in Gaza (2008) and Lebanon (2006) <i>depends</i> on the fact that there will be unintended but inevitable civilian suffering.  Israel tries to avoid harming noncombatants, but depends on the fact that it cannot be avoided.</p>
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