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	<title>Comments on: The Cotton Gin and the Jewish Problem</title>
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	<description>A Progressive, Skeptical Blog on Israel, Judaism, Culture, Politics, and Literature</description>
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		<title>By: ROBERT TEITELBAUM</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/12/the-cotton-gin-and-the-jewish-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-29116</link>
		<dc:creator>ROBERT TEITELBAUM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jan 2011 06:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1757#comment-29116</guid>
		<description>When America entered into Iraq, it believed the Iraqui&#039;s would be appreciative of being saved from a heartless lunatic who used poisen gas on his own countrymen. They failed to understand that a very large portion of the arab world requires strong dictatorship rule to prevent  internal civil war. Everytime the world has bolstered the P.A. to create a working society were people can make a decent living the palestinian authority has chosen war rather then giving their own people a chance to grow and suceed. Even when the P.A. was fairly weak most of thier people did nothing to change this train of thought. So after the the general arab populace suported the idea of Israeli&#039;s being run into the sea, are you saying that the safety of Israeli servicemen, and the plans of the Shin Bet is less important then trying to pretend there is universal brotherly love. Yes some arabs Israelis are our friends, some not. We do not know who is who so we do not take chances. Blacks in the U.S. were not segregated because their people threatened to kill each and every American, that was racism. Many arabs are simply not interested in being a part of the Israeli school system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When America entered into Iraq, it believed the Iraqui&#8217;s would be appreciative of being saved from a heartless lunatic who used poisen gas on his own countrymen. They failed to understand that a very large portion of the arab world requires strong dictatorship rule to prevent  internal civil war. Everytime the world has bolstered the P.A. to create a working society were people can make a decent living the palestinian authority has chosen war rather then giving their own people a chance to grow and suceed. Even when the P.A. was fairly weak most of thier people did nothing to change this train of thought. So after the the general arab populace suported the idea of Israeli&#8217;s being run into the sea, are you saying that the safety of Israeli servicemen, and the plans of the Shin Bet is less important then trying to pretend there is universal brotherly love. Yes some arabs Israelis are our friends, some not. We do not know who is who so we do not take chances. Blacks in the U.S. were not segregated because their people threatened to kill each and every American, that was racism. Many arabs are simply not interested in being a part of the Israeli school system.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Koerner</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/12/the-cotton-gin-and-the-jewish-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-20611</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Koerner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 23:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1757#comment-20611</guid>
		<description>Formally, Israel is a democracy by most reasonable definitions.  All adult citizens--I assume with the exceptions of those in prison, the insane, etc.-- have the right to vote and to run for political office.  Freedom of the press exists for all candidates, all political positions, and all parties.  So it is a democracy.   And using this definition,  it is the only democracy on Asia&#039;s West coast.   But democracy is not enough.  If formal democracy were the only criterion for evaluating a political system, there would be nothing wrong with (let us say) France from passing laws making the penalty for double-parking life in prison.  The fact that France passed such a law democratically would not alter the fundamental injustice of it--or at least I don&#039;t think it would.  I have always felt the same way about many laws that Israel has.   The worst one, in my view, is the law that says that Muslim Arabs who serve in the Israeli armed forces must serve in segregated units.  Here are people willing to fight and die for their country, and they are not permitted to fight alongside their fellow citizens of Jewish heritage.  To Jewish Israelis, the justification may be what Max Weber called &quot;the authority of the eternal yesterday,&quot; but I don&#039;t see how any American can view this practice without being reminded of  the old--and now long gone-- &quot;U.S. Colored Troops.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Formally, Israel is a democracy by most reasonable definitions.  All adult citizens&#8211;I assume with the exceptions of those in prison, the insane, etc.&#8211; have the right to vote and to run for political office.  Freedom of the press exists for all candidates, all political positions, and all parties.  So it is a democracy.   And using this definition,  it is the only democracy on Asia&#8217;s West coast.   But democracy is not enough.  If formal democracy were the only criterion for evaluating a political system, there would be nothing wrong with (let us say) France from passing laws making the penalty for double-parking life in prison.  The fact that France passed such a law democratically would not alter the fundamental injustice of it&#8211;or at least I don&#8217;t think it would.  I have always felt the same way about many laws that Israel has.   The worst one, in my view, is the law that says that Muslim Arabs who serve in the Israeli armed forces must serve in segregated units.  Here are people willing to fight and die for their country, and they are not permitted to fight alongside their fellow citizens of Jewish heritage.  To Jewish Israelis, the justification may be what Max Weber called &#8220;the authority of the eternal yesterday,&#8221; but I don&#8217;t see how any American can view this practice without being reminded of  the old&#8211;and now long gone&#8211; &#8220;U.S. Colored Troops.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/12/the-cotton-gin-and-the-jewish-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-20266</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:07:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1757#comment-20266</guid>
		<description>I believe Israel actually &lt;i&gt;aspires&lt;/i&gt; to be more Middle Eastern, sees it&#039;s collective self as less Western, more Middle Eastern- not Western- while at the same time politically trying to reap benefits of being seen as and proclaiming it is Western ( for survival?)- while at the same time annoyed and defending itself at being held to the West&#039;s higher standards- ( Israeli exceptionalism). Israel takes advantage of being on a cusp/border and if it had to collectively choose- I think  it would go Middle Eastern- a choice of the heart, not the head.   (Of course there is no &quot;collective self&quot; but from the outside, and as an occasional visitor this is what it seems to me).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe Israel actually <i>aspires</i> to be more Middle Eastern, sees it&#8217;s collective self as less Western, more Middle Eastern- not Western- while at the same time politically trying to reap benefits of being seen as and proclaiming it is Western ( for survival?)- while at the same time annoyed and defending itself at being held to the West&#8217;s higher standards- ( Israeli exceptionalism). Israel takes advantage of being on a cusp/border and if it had to collectively choose- I think  it would go Middle Eastern- a choice of the heart, not the head.   (Of course there is no &#8220;collective self&#8221; but from the outside, and as an occasional visitor this is what it seems to me).</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/12/the-cotton-gin-and-the-jewish-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-20225</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 17:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1757#comment-20225</guid>
		<description>On Avneri&#039;s article, how can you take seriously someone who says that the Thirty Years War &quot;determined&quot; Prussia&#039;s history for the next three centuries?  A much better comparison was made by a real historian: Paul Gottfried (whom I cited above in another context) compared Israel to Poland in the interwar years under Marshall Pilsudski [sp?].  My views on Israel are probably closer to Gottfried&#039;s than to those of any other political pundit, for whatever that&#039;s worth.

Israel&#039;s friends as well as its enemies agree that Israel is Western.  The marketeers&#039; task is to make Westernness a &lt;i&gt;salient&lt;/i&gt; property of Israel for Israel&#039;s (potential) friends as it already is for its enemies, and to explain the implications.  Dana&#039;s right that Israel lacks Western &quot;virtues&quot; (some of which I&#039;d call vices, but never mind), but that&#039;s not relevant to the sales pitch.  The point is that Israel is a Western society fighting not just a colonial war but to some extent, alas,  a civilizational war against Islam as well. 

&lt;i&gt;Pace&lt;/i&gt; Fiddler, the West is not almost synonymous with democracy, unless &quot;democracy&quot; means &quot;whatever Western government I happen to support&quot; - and I admit that is a popular current usage.  You certainly can have a Western, ethnocratic state.  Haven&#039;t we already agreed that Israel is one example?  Plus Gershom&#039;s example of the early US.  The list can easily be extended.

I disagree that a time is coming when (Israeli) Haifa will be no more Western than Ramallah.  A claim that big can&#039;t really be argued in blog comments, so I&#039;ll just leave it as my own  statement of faith against Dana&#039;s.

Dana asked, Who are these actual and potential friends I&#039;m talking about?  The actual friends are primarily Americans who view Islam as an enemy, rightly or wrongly.  The most significant potential friends, as I said above, are those on the European right.  Formerly anti-Israel and even anti-Semitic parties are now moving to a pro-Israel position as they view not only mass  immigration, but jihad as an enemy.  If I remember correctly, Lega Nord is a good example: they switched 180 degrees from supporting the Palestinians as their fellows in struggle for national liberation, to supporting Israel as the vanguard against jihad. (If it wasn&#039;t Lega Nord, feel free to correct me; I know it was a secessionist or nationalist party.)  The British National Party under Nick Griffin is trying very hard to clean up its image, and Griffin himself takes a very pro-Israel position.  The list goes on, but the European right might be a very useful ally for Israel to have in the future.  Unfortunately, Israel views them all as Nazis or Nazi sympathizers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Avneri&#8217;s article, how can you take seriously someone who says that the Thirty Years War &#8220;determined&#8221; Prussia&#8217;s history for the next three centuries?  A much better comparison was made by a real historian: Paul Gottfried (whom I cited above in another context) compared Israel to Poland in the interwar years under Marshall Pilsudski [sp?].  My views on Israel are probably closer to Gottfried&#8217;s than to those of any other political pundit, for whatever that&#8217;s worth.</p>
<p>Israel&#8217;s friends as well as its enemies agree that Israel is Western.  The marketeers&#8217; task is to make Westernness a <i>salient</i> property of Israel for Israel&#8217;s (potential) friends as it already is for its enemies, and to explain the implications.  Dana&#8217;s right that Israel lacks Western &#8220;virtues&#8221; (some of which I&#8217;d call vices, but never mind), but that&#8217;s not relevant to the sales pitch.  The point is that Israel is a Western society fighting not just a colonial war but to some extent, alas,  a civilizational war against Islam as well. </p>
<p><i>Pace</i> Fiddler, the West is not almost synonymous with democracy, unless &#8220;democracy&#8221; means &#8220;whatever Western government I happen to support&#8221; &#8211; and I admit that is a popular current usage.  You certainly can have a Western, ethnocratic state.  Haven&#8217;t we already agreed that Israel is one example?  Plus Gershom&#8217;s example of the early US.  The list can easily be extended.</p>
<p>I disagree that a time is coming when (Israeli) Haifa will be no more Western than Ramallah.  A claim that big can&#8217;t really be argued in blog comments, so I&#8217;ll just leave it as my own  statement of faith against Dana&#8217;s.</p>
<p>Dana asked, Who are these actual and potential friends I&#8217;m talking about?  The actual friends are primarily Americans who view Islam as an enemy, rightly or wrongly.  The most significant potential friends, as I said above, are those on the European right.  Formerly anti-Israel and even anti-Semitic parties are now moving to a pro-Israel position as they view not only mass  immigration, but jihad as an enemy.  If I remember correctly, Lega Nord is a good example: they switched 180 degrees from supporting the Palestinians as their fellows in struggle for national liberation, to supporting Israel as the vanguard against jihad. (If it wasn&#8217;t Lega Nord, feel free to correct me; I know it was a secessionist or nationalist party.)  The British National Party under Nick Griffin is trying very hard to clean up its image, and Griffin himself takes a very pro-Israel position.  The list goes on, but the European right might be a very useful ally for Israel to have in the future.  Unfortunately, Israel views them all as Nazis or Nazi sympathizers.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/12/the-cotton-gin-and-the-jewish-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-20211</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 06:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1757#comment-20211</guid>
		<description>Fiddler - thanks for interceding with the excellent - and perceptive - article by Avnery. You made one of my points for me better than I did. But then, you may have noticed that Aaron is one slippery fish, right? his argument is one that would delight a sophist: since israel is already recognized as practicing some of the worst excesses of the &quot;West&quot; - ie, the colonization model and the nationalistic &#039;der staat&quot; - cf. the prussian model, why - with just a little push, it may just achieve full recognition as a fully western state-in-good-standing. As evidence  of this &#039;coming-into-being&quot; Aaron offers the recognition by israel&#039;s &quot;enemies&quot; - both east and west - that israel is a true-blue western construct - just not the best of it. So all that needs to be done is to convince it&#039;s &quot;friends&quot;.

But therein lies the rub - as you correctly interpret my original statement - no amount of Western excess (colonization, militaristic model, ethnic purity) can make up for the increasing absence of Western &quot;virtue&quot;in israel, key among which are democracy as well as commitment to universal rights, and indeed - a move away from the purely ethnic/homogeneous model for a state (at least in principle; and yes, except for the Swiss; but they are a special case, and they do make excellent chocolate). But Aaron knows that, though he may be hoping that perhaps israel&#039;s &quot;friends&quot; basking in the delights of tel Aviv&#039;s western life will somehow neglect to notice those other creeping influences - the levantinization and talibanization that&#039;s stalking the oh-so-modern skyscrappers dotting silicon vadi.

For a time, that has indeed happened. Israel&#039;s &quot;friends&quot; (who are these, Aaron? please clarify...) will indeed feel at home in haifa more than in ramallah. But I maintain that this time is drawing to a close - perceptibly in some cases, less so than in others. It&#039;s not that ranmallah will become a bastion of &quot;westernism&quot; overnight. It&#039;s that israel will become more like an unholy mix of  Dubai, Lebanon and Serbia, all mixed up with a touch of the maccabees&#039; judea and afganistan&#039;s mujahadeen, sprinkled with prussian nationalist puff. A tasty mix, if there ever was one, no?

As an aside (and because I was tempted) I&#039;ll  go back to Avnery, and the following memorable passage: :

&quot;The Prussian state became proverbial. Demonized by its enemies, it was, however, exemplary in many ways – a well organized, orderly and law-abiding structure, its bureaucracy untainted by corruption. The Prussian official received a paltry salary, lived modestly and was intensely proud of his status. He detested ostentation. &quot;

So here was the best of Prussia - the clean austerity that was also a hall mark of the early zionists. This is one of those western - and indeed spartan ideals - the good &quot;army&quot; as a model for civil society. Alas, not much of that respect for order, frugality and clean living in modern day Israel, is there?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fiddler &#8211; thanks for interceding with the excellent &#8211; and perceptive &#8211; article by Avnery. You made one of my points for me better than I did. But then, you may have noticed that Aaron is one slippery fish, right? his argument is one that would delight a sophist: since israel is already recognized as practicing some of the worst excesses of the &#8220;West&#8221; &#8211; ie, the colonization model and the nationalistic &#8216;der staat&#8221; &#8211; cf. the prussian model, why &#8211; with just a little push, it may just achieve full recognition as a fully western state-in-good-standing. As evidence  of this &#8216;coming-into-being&#8221; Aaron offers the recognition by israel&#8217;s &#8220;enemies&#8221; &#8211; both east and west &#8211; that israel is a true-blue western construct &#8211; just not the best of it. So all that needs to be done is to convince it&#8217;s &#8220;friends&#8221;.</p>
<p>But therein lies the rub &#8211; as you correctly interpret my original statement &#8211; no amount of Western excess (colonization, militaristic model, ethnic purity) can make up for the increasing absence of Western &#8220;virtue&#8221;in israel, key among which are democracy as well as commitment to universal rights, and indeed &#8211; a move away from the purely ethnic/homogeneous model for a state (at least in principle; and yes, except for the Swiss; but they are a special case, and they do make excellent chocolate). But Aaron knows that, though he may be hoping that perhaps israel&#8217;s &#8220;friends&#8221; basking in the delights of tel Aviv&#8217;s western life will somehow neglect to notice those other creeping influences &#8211; the levantinization and talibanization that&#8217;s stalking the oh-so-modern skyscrappers dotting silicon vadi.</p>
<p>For a time, that has indeed happened. Israel&#8217;s &#8220;friends&#8221; (who are these, Aaron? please clarify&#8230;) will indeed feel at home in haifa more than in ramallah. But I maintain that this time is drawing to a close &#8211; perceptibly in some cases, less so than in others. It&#8217;s not that ranmallah will become a bastion of &#8220;westernism&#8221; overnight. It&#8217;s that israel will become more like an unholy mix of  Dubai, Lebanon and Serbia, all mixed up with a touch of the maccabees&#8217; judea and afganistan&#8217;s mujahadeen, sprinkled with prussian nationalist puff. A tasty mix, if there ever was one, no?</p>
<p>As an aside (and because I was tempted) I&#8217;ll  go back to Avnery, and the following memorable passage: :</p>
<p>&#8220;The Prussian state became proverbial. Demonized by its enemies, it was, however, exemplary in many ways – a well organized, orderly and law-abiding structure, its bureaucracy untainted by corruption. The Prussian official received a paltry salary, lived modestly and was intensely proud of his status. He detested ostentation. &#8221;</p>
<p>So here was the best of Prussia &#8211; the clean austerity that was also a hall mark of the early zionists. This is one of those western &#8211; and indeed spartan ideals &#8211; the good &#8220;army&#8221; as a model for civil society. Alas, not much of that respect for order, frugality and clean living in modern day Israel, is there?</p>
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		<title>By: fiddler</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/12/the-cotton-gin-and-the-jewish-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-20177</link>
		<dc:creator>fiddler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 16:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1757#comment-20177</guid>
		<description>Aaron, Dana&#039;s point wasn&#039;t that Israel isn&#039;t &quot;Western&quot; but that it&#039;s steadily becoming less so, adopting the more unsavoury traits of its neighbours in the process.

Where do you get the idea that Israel&#039;s friends don&#039;t, by and large, agree that Israel is &quot;Western&quot;? The neocons, whether Jewish or Christian, certainly see it as Western outpost in the Middle East, a forward battalion in the alleged clash of cultures, if not of armies. Others see at least a close cultural relative, emphasizing Ashkenazi European-ness (which has historically defined and dominated the state anyway) over the (to them, elusive) Jewishness that binds Ashkenazim and Mizrahim, but excludes even the most friendly goyim. Somewhat paradoxically, this notion of Israel having come &quot;out of our midst&quot; (in both ways - &quot;one of us&quot; as well as &quot;away from us&quot;) still implies an otherness they&#039;d never claim consciously: terming Jews &quot;the other&quot; is no-go-area for Western non-anti-Semites.
So, selling the &quot;Israel is Western&quot; message isn&#039;t only easy, it&#039;s also unnecessary. The rub is that in the West itself &quot;the West&quot; is almost synonymous with &quot;democracy&quot;. Whether Iraqis, Afghans, South Americans, and many others would agree with that is irrelevant - in Western perception you can&#039;t have one without the other.

Interestingly, Uri Avneri compares Israel not to its neighbours, but to Prussia:
http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1260658441
Bearing in mind that the perception &quot;the West = democracy&quot; is pretty recent and had no base in even Western reality in the days of Prussia, is that the &quot;West&quot; you want Israel to sell itself as belonging to?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron, Dana&#8217;s point wasn&#8217;t that Israel isn&#8217;t &#8220;Western&#8221; but that it&#8217;s steadily becoming less so, adopting the more unsavoury traits of its neighbours in the process.</p>
<p>Where do you get the idea that Israel&#8217;s friends don&#8217;t, by and large, agree that Israel is &#8220;Western&#8221;? The neocons, whether Jewish or Christian, certainly see it as Western outpost in the Middle East, a forward battalion in the alleged clash of cultures, if not of armies. Others see at least a close cultural relative, emphasizing Ashkenazi European-ness (which has historically defined and dominated the state anyway) over the (to them, elusive) Jewishness that binds Ashkenazim and Mizrahim, but excludes even the most friendly goyim. Somewhat paradoxically, this notion of Israel having come &#8220;out of our midst&#8221; (in both ways &#8211; &#8220;one of us&#8221; as well as &#8220;away from us&#8221;) still implies an otherness they&#8217;d never claim consciously: terming Jews &#8220;the other&#8221; is no-go-area for Western non-anti-Semites.<br />
So, selling the &#8220;Israel is Western&#8221; message isn&#8217;t only easy, it&#8217;s also unnecessary. The rub is that in the West itself &#8220;the West&#8221; is almost synonymous with &#8220;democracy&#8221;. Whether Iraqis, Afghans, South Americans, and many others would agree with that is irrelevant &#8211; in Western perception you can&#8217;t have one without the other.</p>
<p>Interestingly, Uri Avneri compares Israel not to its neighbours, but to Prussia:<br />
<a href="http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1260658441" rel="nofollow">http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1260658441</a><br />
Bearing in mind that the perception &#8220;the West = democracy&#8221; is pretty recent and had no base in even Western reality in the days of Prussia, is that the &#8220;West&#8221; you want Israel to sell itself as belonging to?</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/12/the-cotton-gin-and-the-jewish-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-20172</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 12:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1757#comment-20172</guid>
		<description>Suzanne: Yes, of course many friends of Israel don&#039;t buy the democracy pitch either.  I&#039;m one of them, remember?  That&#039;s one of the main reasons Israel should stop trying to sell itself as a democracy to its actual and potential friends.  (The other reason is that democracy is less effective now, as a marketing tool,  than it was during the Cold War.)

I noted that Israel&#039;s &lt;i&gt;enemies&lt;/i&gt; already agree that Israel is Western - in fact, they insist on it - in order to show to Dana that selling the &quot;Israel is Western&quot; message won&#039;t be difficult at all.  Pretty much everyone except Dana already agrees that Israel is Western compared to its Muslim enemies.  Now it&#039;s just a matter of marketing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suzanne: Yes, of course many friends of Israel don&#8217;t buy the democracy pitch either.  I&#8217;m one of them, remember?  That&#8217;s one of the main reasons Israel should stop trying to sell itself as a democracy to its actual and potential friends.  (The other reason is that democracy is less effective now, as a marketing tool,  than it was during the Cold War.)</p>
<p>I noted that Israel&#8217;s <i>enemies</i> already agree that Israel is Western &#8211; in fact, they insist on it &#8211; in order to show to Dana that selling the &#8220;Israel is Western&#8221; message won&#8217;t be difficult at all.  Pretty much everyone except Dana already agrees that Israel is Western compared to its Muslim enemies.  Now it&#8217;s just a matter of marketing.</p>
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		<title>By: Herbert Kaine</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/12/the-cotton-gin-and-the-jewish-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-20145</link>
		<dc:creator>Herbert Kaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 22:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1757#comment-20145</guid>
		<description>but I have high hopes that a Palestinian Authority in control of its territory would have an interest in keeping the Qassams out of Israel (and by so doing keep the IDF out of Palestine).... I also have high hopes that Santa Claus will come down the chimney of my house and deposit gifts under my Christmas tree next week</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>but I have high hopes that a Palestinian Authority in control of its territory would have an interest in keeping the Qassams out of Israel (and by so doing keep the IDF out of Palestine)&#8230;. I also have high hopes that Santa Claus will come down the chimney of my house and deposit gifts under my Christmas tree next week</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/12/the-cotton-gin-and-the-jewish-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-20142</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 22:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1757#comment-20142</guid>
		<description>Aaron- could it be that Israel&#039;s &lt;i&gt;friends&lt;/i&gt; point out that it is less than a full democracy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron- could it be that Israel&#8217;s <i>friends</i> point out that it is less than a full democracy?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://southjerusalem.com/2009/12/the-cotton-gin-and-the-jewish-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-20117</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 06:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southjerusalem.com/?p=1757#comment-20117</guid>
		<description>Dana, you&#039;re right as usual.  Your examples of Israel&#039;s Levantine savagery are all too true.  The worst thing is, Israelis are &lt;i&gt;proud&lt;/i&gt; of being savages.  Still, Israel is more Western than &quot;Palestine&quot;, Iran, etc.  Not more civilized, but more Western.  A Westerner feels more at home in Tel Aviv than in Ramallah or Tehran, which is one reason many Westerners are more sympathetic to Palestinians and Iranians than to Israelis.

In any case, Israel is already perceived as Western by its Western enemies.  Israel is supposedly a Western colonialist power or whatever.  It&#039;s a truism that perception is what matters in politics.  So we already know that Israel can sell a Western image of itself to its enemies, whether or not it&#039;s really Western (which it is, compared to its Muslim enemies).  Israel&#039;s enemies will (rightly) deny that it&#039;s a democracy, but they will insist that it&#039;s Western.  So Israel just has to give up the tough sell of democracy and start selling a Western image to its potential friends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dana, you&#8217;re right as usual.  Your examples of Israel&#8217;s Levantine savagery are all too true.  The worst thing is, Israelis are <i>proud</i> of being savages.  Still, Israel is more Western than &#8220;Palestine&#8221;, Iran, etc.  Not more civilized, but more Western.  A Westerner feels more at home in Tel Aviv than in Ramallah or Tehran, which is one reason many Westerners are more sympathetic to Palestinians and Iranians than to Israelis.</p>
<p>In any case, Israel is already perceived as Western by its Western enemies.  Israel is supposedly a Western colonialist power or whatever.  It&#8217;s a truism that perception is what matters in politics.  So we already know that Israel can sell a Western image of itself to its enemies, whether or not it&#8217;s really Western (which it is, compared to its Muslim enemies).  Israel&#8217;s enemies will (rightly) deny that it&#8217;s a democracy, but they will insist that it&#8217;s Western.  So Israel just has to give up the tough sell of democracy and start selling a Western image to its potential friends.</p>
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