Comments on: Ultra-Orthodoxy, Made in Israel

By: aliyah06

aliyah06 — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 21:32:35 +0000

I’d love to see the yeshivot treated the same as college or technical school — you do your army or national service time, and qualify for 3 years of education in a yeshiva, a university or post-secondary school, and after that, publish or perish. If you’re not an academic, you’re out of the yeshiva and looking for work. Every sociological study here and elsewhere shows when people have to earn the money to feed and clothe their children, instead of being on the dole (ok, to me child allowances are a form of being on the dole–switch instead to tax deductions from income for each child instead of subsidizing many children you can’t afford) and having your wife and my taxes and tzedakkah support you.

I know this isn’t true of all chareidim. I know lawyers and doctors and accountants and hi-tech guys in Israel who all WORK and work hard to support their 9 children and put those children through school. I also know a couple of guys who use being ‘religious’ as a dodge to avoid conscription, national service and working for a living….

The system has to be changed. I don’t care how many children someone has as long as he can support them.

I don’t see much hope of changing the system as long as the religious parties are the swing votes, however.

By: Yam Erez

Yam Erez — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 12:59:09 +0000

This was an excellent article. It explains concisely how we got to where we are today. I have a query that is sort of a non-sequitur: Is there any reason that a woman cannot be a kashrut supervisor? Or a *mohelet*?

By: Suzanne

Suzanne — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:07:43 +0000

I n other words notonly “made in Israel”.

By: Suzanne

Suzanne — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:05:31 +0000

Excellent article and needed- and a lot to think about. I have been thinking for years that this culture is not supportable or sustainable- and that it contains the seeds of it’s own demise. Now I think also possibly Israel’s.

Years ago the Haredim were a very small part of the whole of Israeli society and the Jewish community here in the US- and of course it was not a problem to support them then– even a duty perhaps.

On the local level I have watched this change in my own orthodox family which started out as “modern orthodox” here in the USA. My aunts never covered their heads ( and wore shorts in the summer!) and my uncles had professions. But cousins, their children went to the yeshivot here and they have had many children, many who have left for Israel to have many children of their own there, also living in more affordable settlements.

It’s not a reversion to the old culture (impossible in this modern day)- it’s an evolved new one and (yes) parasitical, dependent on the ability and willingness ( guilt?) of others to support it. The women raise many children and are expected to earn money in addition- while the men study.

By: Clif

Clif — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 05:29:17 +0000

I just read Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s Infidel. Your account of the ultra-orthodox reminds me of the isolated way of life that Ali fled in Somalia, not in specific practices but in the removal of all that might act to counter the force of a culture on individuals. She is well known for speaking out against cultural groups living only among themselves, rejecting the culture around them.

In Europe, there is resistance to immigrant communities that do not wish to be part of the larger culture or even to speak the language of the country in which they reside. Isolation allows this to happen. Even so, as the fuss over the Danish cartoons showed, fear of causing offense can bring many to cower before the demands of a minority.

It would seem that in Israel, the minority has worked its magic as well, growing with the assistance (at one remove – by way of the government) of those who would not support it on their own.

I’m reminded also of the history related in your book – where the settlements grew and prospered by hook or by crook to the point that now there is no turning around those facts on the ground. It wasn’t necessary to have popular support as long as key people in positions of authority could be counted on to, at the very least, look the other way.

It appears that once a certain threshold is passed there can be a tyranny of the minority.

By: Ultra-Orthodoxy, Made in Israel | Holy lands tours - holyland

Ultra-Orthodoxy, Made in Israel | Holy lands tours - holyland — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:51:07 +0000

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